#91 - Increasing Donor Engagement Through Specific Stories
w/ Jennifer Porter
Senior Fundraising Leader
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SHOW NOTES
In this conversation, Jennifer Porter and John Azoni discuss the critical role of storytelling in fundraising, particularly within higher education. They explore how to connect donors to specific needs, the importance of collaboration across departments, and the impact of authenticity in donor engagement. Real-life examples illustrate how effective storytelling can resonate with donors and drive contributions. The discussion emphasizes the need for fundraisers to be open about challenges and to use data and stories effectively to engage their audience.
🎯 Key Takeaways from the Episode:
Don’t be afraid to tell real, messy stories. Authentic narratives—especially ones that reveal challenges—create stronger emotional connections with donors.
Cross-department collaboration enhances storytelling. Fundraising, marketing, and alumni teams should align efforts to maximize storytelling impact and avoid working in silos.
Connect donors to people, not just statistics. Specific, human-centered stories resonate more deeply than generic data or institutional updates.
Make the donor feel their impact is tangible. Whether through a scholarship, mentorship, or general fund support, donors want to know exactly who and how they’re helping.
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Transcript (done with AI so only about 90% accurate):
00;00;00;10 - 00;00;26;01
John Azoni
My guest today is Jennifer Porter. Jennifer is a dynamic leader in fundraising and strategic storytelling, known for driving multi-million dollar campaigns and building high impact partnerships that elevate mission driven organizations. She's also the proud mom of the world's best daughter, Louise, and a devoted case of Blanco enthusiast who believes most problems can be solved over chips and cheese, which I would agree with.
00;00;26;20 - 00;00;27;19
John Azoni
Jen, welcome to the show.
00;00;28;00 - 00;00;30;01
Jennifer Porter
Thank you so much, John. It's good to be back.
00;00;30;28 - 00;01;00;28
John Azoni
Yes. So we've we've determined, I think, on this podcast that one time returning as a guest gets you frequent flier status. So you are now a frequent flier on the podcast. So if people were listening, you didn't hear the episode. We did it like a year and a half ago, two, almost two years ago, about Coach, which was a documentary for a higher ed institution that you kind of executive produced and is a really cool, cool project.
00;01;00;28 - 00;01;28;24
John Azoni
So we took you behind the scenes of that project and we got Jen back here to talk about the theme of this episode is fundraising in Higher Ed, but kind of like getting specific about where donors can plug in on a specific level rather than just kind of like a general, like you're donating to the general fund. Like how do we uplift specific needs that drive donations?
00;01;29;01 - 00;01;29;21
John Azoni
AM I correct?
00;01;30;00 - 00;01;56;03
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I think so. And even when because the bread and butter of any fundraiser is the annual fund, you have to raise the annual fund or it doesn't exist right. But how do you do that in a way that is so specific to tell the story of your organization or your institution without losing your donor along the way in just stats or just like the letter from your VP or your CEO or things like that.
00;01;56;03 - 00;02;09;23
Jennifer Porter
So how do you make more of a connection with your donor and still get them to give to the places that you want them to give that they're passionate about and can really have an impact on your organization and your mission overall? I think.
00;02;09;25 - 00;02;10;04
John Azoni
So, you.
00;02;10;15 - 00;02;10;23
Jennifer Porter
Know.
00;02;11;19 - 00;02;26;25
John Azoni
Okay. Yeah. Because you and I were having cup while I was having coffee the other day. Jen lives by me. She couldn't get her garage door closed, so she had to come late to the meeting and just sat down. And I had already had my coffee, so. But we were.
00;02;26;25 - 00;02;28;01
Jennifer Porter
Talking. I need to talk.
00;02;29;23 - 00;02;51;17
John Azoni
We were talking. And it was one of those sort of meetings that like we wish we had hit record on it because it was a really good conversation about storytelling and donations and fundraising and all the things. So we're gonna try to recreate that today. But first off, I mean, we kind of learned something. We didn't know about you in your bio about K so yeah.
00;02;51;25 - 00;02;57;06
John Azoni
Tell us something people might be surprised to know about you or expand on the K. So reference.
00;02;57;15 - 00;02;58;13
Jennifer Porter
Yeah. I mean, it.
00;02;58;19 - 00;02;59;17
John Azoni
Feels best to you.
00;03;00;20 - 00;03;19;00
Jennifer Porter
I can always expand on K so I love it so much is a passion for mine. It is there for me when I'm sad. It's there for me when I'm happy. I've done business meetings over K so I think it just lightens the mood and you know, why not enjoy maybe you know more than chips and K So with a little drink, if you saw inclined want to partake.
00;03;19;07 - 00;03;26;22
Jennifer Porter
Yeah. RJ No so solves the world's problems I think that's that's me.
00;03;27;04 - 00;03;31;26
John Azoni
All right, good. Where is like, who has the best queso around here?
00;03;31;27 - 00;03;57;15
Jennifer Porter
I'm on the El Toro chain, which I was not familiar with. They are technically Pontiac, but it's like Auburn Hills Center Point Center, Point Drive. That is where you might find me any time for it specifically needs to be the white like Ronnie restaurant style. So for me, I like the I mean, cheese is great, but the another good one is in downtown Oxford.
00;03;57;15 - 00;04;00;09
Jennifer Porter
There's oh, gosh, I'm not going to remember the name of it.
00;04;00;16 - 00;04;04;00
John Azoni
So we're in Michigan, by the way. These are all Michigan references. Yeah.
00;04;04;29 - 00;04;13;18
Jennifer Porter
Yeah. These are all like local hometown, you know, restaurants that I was fully support there. White case. Oh. Gabe. Yeah.
00;04;13;19 - 00;04;32;10
John Azoni
So my wife Laura for the past, I don't know, a year or so. She's a therapist and she has an office that she just got in downtown Auburn Hills, which is in southeast Michigan. For people who are aware and it's right above literally or one floor, right above what's the cantina and no.
00;04;33;02 - 00;04;34;03
Jennifer Porter
Diablo, is that right?
00;04;34;04 - 00;04;35;16
John Azoni
Diablo Yeah.
00;04;35;16 - 00;04;40;07
Jennifer Porter
New one. I haven't been there yet. It's new ish. It's not that new anymore, but I haven't been.
00;04;40;07 - 00;04;56;04
John Azoni
It's good. Like you could see, like if you're looking at the restaurant from the street, whatever street that is, squirrel or whatever, and you look up one floor. That's Laura's office right there. So yeah, we eat a lot of Mexican food. I haven't tried their queso yet, though.
00;04;56;16 - 00;05;03;08
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, you got to try it out, See if it's good. Let me know. We'll do our next guest over chips and cheese. How about that job?
00;05;03;09 - 00;05;06;09
John Azoni
Yeah, we should. I mean, you should've told me I would have come prepared.
00;05;06;19 - 00;05;06;28
Jennifer Porter
Oh.
00;05;07;27 - 00;05;20;00
John Azoni
Okay. So talk about your background in in higher ed marketing and fundraising. And you also have background in nonprofit as well. So just to catch our listeners up on who you are and where you come from.
00;05;20;08 - 00;05;51;00
Jennifer Porter
Yeah. So I spent 13 years in Higher ed leading the fundraising team was a very small shop. We had anywhere from 2 to 4 of us that were kind of raising funds, doing the data research, connecting with alumni, all of that. And we worked very closely with our marketing team. They were a team of two. And so to be able to accomplish any of our goals or any mailers, fliers, information, we were a tight knit team for our Marcum and our fundraising team.
00;05;51;00 - 00;06;20;09
Jennifer Porter
So then I after that I decided to try a new challenge and moved into nonprofit for a couple of years for an agency that focuses on domestic violence and sexual assault here in Michigan. And I learned a lot. I learned, you know, obviously coming in, you think this is a great cause to fundraise for. You're going to be able to tell the stories, but it's different when it comes from, you know, there's sort of survivor focus, there's confidentiality, there's safety concerns there.
00;06;20;09 - 00;06;42;26
Jennifer Porter
So so to storytelling, you have a great mission, a great cause, but you have to be nimble in order to really kind of connect your donors with what they what they need to hear and what they can hear along the way. So that's kind of my my background because I've been able to work in small shops, like I've gotten to do a lot of different things.
00;06;42;26 - 00;07;09;11
Jennifer Porter
I'm not just a major gifts. I've done capital campaigns, we've done plane giving, we've done annual fund alumni a little bit of everything and got to do some fun projects like that video that John referenced earlier. I got to lead some 50 year anniversaries for the nonprofit. I was just that. And so my career has been a little bit of everything and gotten to learn the entire way because I did not start out wanting to be a fundraiser.
00;07;09;11 - 00;07;25;24
Jennifer Porter
I guess it just was one of those things that came about and I love it and it is my true passion. I love being with people. I love hearing their story and connecting them to a mission and figuring out what's going to be most beneficial for most people. So that's a little bit about me.
00;07;26;06 - 00;07;50;14
John Azoni
Yeah. So tell me about like the problem, because you and I were talking about like there's this kind of problem of, you know, fundraising and there's this gap of like meeting specific needs that could kind of boost fundraising efforts and like donors kind of being disconnected from like the individual, you know, humans that they're affecting. So talk about like where this has come up for you, you know, in your career.
00;07;50;14 - 00;07;56;15
John Azoni
Where have you seen this this become problematic? We're like not getting specific with with fundraising.
00;07;56;27 - 00;08;18;02
Jennifer Porter
Yeah. I think, you know, it's it's a challenge at all times because in fundraising, you want to hit your goals. You have you have goals to make them the mission of whatever you're working towards, you know, viable, right? Like that is how you're going to continue to to support in this organization. Whatever it is is going to continue to to exist in higher ed.
00;08;18;02 - 00;08;33;26
Jennifer Porter
That's a little bit different because you have tuition and depending on how big your school is, you have endowments and there's there could be a lot of factors. But I came from a small school that tuition and your annual fund, those are your bread and butter. And so if you don't have those, your who knows what's going to happen that year.
00;08;35;01 - 00;09;01;05
Jennifer Porter
You're might not be making payroll So or you know, being able to do the things that you want to do to actually be mission focused. And so I think the problem comes in with you want to tell your donors enough to connect them to the mission, but sometimes you forget that human element and the donor. Really? Yes. They care about the financials and there are many donors that want to know specific.
00;09;01;05 - 00;09;30;17
Jennifer Porter
You know, there's a plethora of different donors. But most of the time, if you're telling a story that's more focused on a person and what the outcome is and how their lives were improved or your mission was able to better serve versus maybe just a letter from the CEO or your vice president or your president that is way more engaging to a donor versus just a general update.
00;09;30;25 - 00;09;52;03
Jennifer Porter
Or here are the stats. Here's how many students we have. That's all great, but they could Google that at any time, right? As fundraisers, we have to have these relationships anyway with our donors. That's you should be. So if you're not, take a step back and look at that first. But you fix that because and then start telling the story.
00;09;52;17 - 00;10;04;02
John Azoni
There's this tick tock that I always that always pops into my head of was like, Oh God, I'm going to butcher it. It's like if you're this like, fix that. Or she's like, if you're mentally ill, fix that.
00;10;04;13 - 00;10;40;02
Jennifer Porter
Or something like that. Anyway, yeah. And your donors fix that if you are just giving stats, fix that. But I think, you know, there are so many ways to engage a donor even in annual fun giving because you can tell a story and John and I have done some videos together for for the institution that I was at and really John and his team and a couple of others that we worked with changed my my mindset on that of and I think I just saw LinkedIn posts that you did, John, on asking you know, asking better questions.
00;10;40;02 - 00;10;46;14
Jennifer Porter
If you ask bad questions, you're going to get bad answers. And basically I'm going to say that's yes, but you know what I mean?
00;10;47;18 - 00;10;48;24
John Azoni
That's that's the gist of it.
00;10;49;03 - 00;11;08;07
Jennifer Porter
Just but I think, you know, when it comes to donors, if you are able to really show them a face of in higher ed right. This is a student. This is a real life student. This is why they're going not just their major, not just, you know, what they want to be when they grow up or, you know, who their favorite professor is.
00;11;08;07 - 00;11;31;16
Jennifer Porter
But if you can get into the why that they came to that institution and what has made them stay, what are their goals and how has their life been impacted and kind of show that daily life. And it's not always this massive thing that happen. It's not always like, oh, they you know, they were fully scholarship, but and they came here and they've had this great awakening.
00;11;31;16 - 00;11;58;03
Jennifer Porter
No, sometimes it can just be the simple, everyday student or, you know, whatever's happening in your nonprofit, but really engaging with that student in knowing and telling that story basically of what is happening on a daily basis within your organization, within your institution, and why that donor needs to help them. What is the problem that maybe this student is encountering?
00;11;58;17 - 00;12;22;08
John Azoni
You know, we were talking during coffee. There's a college that you're working with currently on an anti melt campaign. And, you know, they came to us saying, hey, we want to make some content at commencement and we want to use that kind of emotion and that kind of thing, you know, to help people overcome like pain points that would potentially melt, you know, and not show up to class on the first day or whatever.
00;12;22;19 - 00;12;50;27
John Azoni
And so we put together a campaign sort of that was addressing like five main pain points. And one of those was like, what almost stopped you from attending this university? And that's one of my favorite ones because there's some one gentleman. He said, you know, his dad is sick and in the hospital and he wasn't sure if he could, you know, break away from that and make the space to come or it could be like, you know, problems delayed visa or something like that, or it could be financial.
00;12;50;27 - 00;13;02;26
John Azoni
Like they didn't you know, they kind of assumed the money would be there. But then they sort of did the math and it just wasn't math. And, you know, and now they're kind of like, ooh, maybe I can't afford this grad school or whatever. But yeah. So tell me your thoughts on that.
00;13;03;05 - 00;13;26;09
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I know. We had we used to do a big scholarship luncheon for our endowed scholarships, and one year there was a junior that said, I don't know if I'm going to be able to come back next year. She told this to a donor because I can't afford textbooks and living and, you know, just those basic things, that donor.
00;13;26;09 - 00;14;00;02
Jennifer Porter
Then we we created a scholarship. It's the finish line scholarship. And that has been done at a few different higher ed institutions around to get that that student from you know, over that finish line basically that that completion is happening and that came from a real live conversation. And I think sometimes you're afraid to be not afraid, but maybe a little bit nervous to share the real problem with your donors because you don't want them to be like, oh, that's a bigger issue than maybe I can fix myself with my money.
00;14;00;16 - 00;14;28;26
Jennifer Porter
Or that's a bigger issue that like what is going on within the institution that's not assisting these students, but sometimes, you know, financial aid and there's a lot that goes into one student. And so to be open and honest with that story, it can create some really amazing moments with your donors. Yeah. You know, when you're doing that and when you're marketing team because, you know, usually you're talking to marketing people and I'm kind of a marketing person.
00;14;28;26 - 00;14;54;27
Jennifer Porter
I'm mostly a fundraiser, but because I've been in smaller organizations, those go hand in hand to be able to tell the story. And so if your enrollment team or your marketing team are there doing something, they have a campaign they may not do deal with anything related to fundraising, right? It might not have anything to do with what you're talking to a donor about.
00;14;54;27 - 00;15;14;00
Jennifer Porter
But every one of us and I hate this saying is everyone's a fundraiser on the team, but I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, you're trying to get students, you're trying to support your nonprofit, you're trying to get funds in. And so how do you do that in a way that is institution wide, that you're not recreating the wheel every time?
00;15;14;07 - 00;15;43;05
Jennifer Porter
With this melt campaign, there's a real problem. There's a real problem that maybe an international student can't get their visa or that they don't have enough funds to or like a student doesn't have enough funds because they haven't massed. And I think there's a real problem that a donor could say, yes, I'm going to do X, Y and Z, and we're going to create either an endowment or a fund or utilizing if your annual fund dollars are up, you can utilize those funds for whatever purpose.
00;15;43;05 - 00;16;04;07
Jennifer Porter
Right? That's the beauty of an annual fund. They are unrestricted. You can use them for whatever is necessary. So if you're having these campaigns, you're already identifying those issues in another part of the institution. Why not use that? Why not use that in your mailer, in your emails, in your social as a fundraiser, or as an alumni relations officer?
00;16;04;14 - 00;16;35;27
Jennifer Porter
Because most likely your alums probably experience some sort of that issue as well. Maybe they persevered and then they can be a mentor to that new incoming student. So it doesn't have to be just about actual funds. It can be about connection and volunteerism and solving a greater problem altogether. And I think sometimes there's this tendency to get siloed in, you know, bigger organizations, even smaller organizations of this is what you do, this is what we do.
00;16;35;27 - 00;17;08;22
Jennifer Porter
They don't connect. They don't have to connect. But if you're looking at the bigger picture, why not? You're already paying to utilize a campaign in this way. Recreate that, and maybe you expand it with alums and tell that alumni story of the perseverance that happened and how, you know, the organization or the institution helped them persevere in a very specific way that it's not just now we have these great retention rates and we have these great enrollment rates.
00;17;08;22 - 00;17;29;10
Jennifer Porter
Nobody really cares about that. People care about people. And so if you can showcase the person or the problem in a way that is going to pull on your heartstrings a little and that you can relate to, you're going to be more successful, you're going to be able to then have a real conversation on what is needed across the board.
00;17;29;28 - 00;17;49;14
Jennifer Porter
We did this. We did a mentoring program where I was at last in higher ed, and because we noticed a problem that our freshman sophomores up, we had a retention issue, especially from sophomore to juniors. And so we started a mentoring program with alums and community people to say, Hey, we've been in your shoes, what can we do to assist?
00;17;49;14 - 00;18;12;03
Jennifer Porter
How can we get there? And then from there we created some sponsorship agreements with different corporations and we got those alumni that weren't giving maybe dollars, but they were giving of their time now. So then you can start to create this journey for them. That's not just, hey, it's time to give your annual gift or Hey, it's the give day again or whatever.
00;18;12;03 - 00;18;14;10
Jennifer Porter
It's a real tangible story that they can. Yeah.
00;18;14;22 - 00;18;39;25
John Azoni
Yeah. And it makes me think like, you know, we as marketers, as communicators, and in fundraising, it's all the same thing. It's all, how do you deliver a message that gets people to connect emotionally and we want to stay high level. We want to talk about, you know, the great things that our students are doing, which is great, but in a very vague way or like the impact the school is kind of making or new programs that are coming out.
00;18;40;05 - 00;18;58;21
John Azoni
But like, what we need to realize is like the more granular you get, the more people can connect with that. And so you and I had a funny exchange over the lacrosse field at the school that you were working at. And so we were working on a series of videos. One of them was interviewing the captain of the lacrosse team.
00;18;58;21 - 00;19;17;25
John Azoni
And you guys are trying to raise money for a new lacrosse field. And she was talking about like she was real sweet. She was trying to really, you know, talk around the issue, but she was like, oh, you know, the ground's uneven. And like, when it rains, there's like puddles. And our goalie is standing in a puddle. And like, people twist their ankles and stuff.
00;19;18;03 - 00;19;37;00
John Azoni
So all of that is great specific stuff. But then she was like really dancing around saying there's dog poop on the field, like she is like the people walk their dogs across the field and then don't pick up after them. And so you and I kind of we're like kids. This was going to play at a fancy.
00;19;37;00 - 00;19;38;12
Jennifer Porter
Event at.
00;19;38;24 - 00;19;39;15
John Azoni
Dinner, no.
00;19;39;15 - 00;19;45;11
Jennifer Porter
Less than probably around dinnertime.
00;19;45;11 - 00;20;04;07
John Azoni
So we were kind of, you know, I gave you the poop version. Yes. And you were like, Oh, I don't know. And so we went back and forth on that. But ultimately, I mean, you agreed with me, which I was. Yeah, I was. I appreciate when people agree with me, but you know how we're talking in email back and forth of like, you have to go there.
00;20;04;07 - 00;20;28;23
John Azoni
You know, the lacrosse players are uncomfortable, so why would you not want to make the donors uncomfortable and feel that discomfort? Because who wouldn't want to donate to that? And like twisted ankles. Puddles. Okay. You know, that's all. I mean, some of that stuff can happen on any field, but like, dog poop, like, that's an extreme of like, let's fix that problem.
00;20;28;29 - 00;20;43;00
John Azoni
And I totally get where the rub was for you and your team because you're probably thinking like, what's the leadership going to say about us? I mean, we don't want to give the impression that we're letting these athletes play on this field.
00;20;43;00 - 00;21;01;10
Jennifer Porter
You know, the. Terry, we still care about our students, right? Like, we're not like, just like, go out there and play and poop at the same time. Like, yeah, it was a real rub for me. I went back and forth for a long time, not a long time, because we had to make some decisions. But in my head I went over it a lot.
00;21;01;10 - 00;21;22;27
Jennifer Porter
And you know what actually switched? My thought was that Burger King ad you brought up. So John shared all of his research and said, you know, look at this ad that Burger King did. I think that this could be something similar and, you know, pull it the heartstrings and also, you know, tell a really live story or tell a real story and make that connection to the lacrosse players.
00;21;22;27 - 00;21;26;04
Jennifer Porter
And ultimately, we went with it. And it was a great video.
00;21;26;11 - 00;21;45;05
John Azoni
Yeah. The Burger King ad for context was like it's just this image of a moldy whopper or a burger. I don't know if it was technically a whopper, but it's like all moldy and it was a magazine ad or a bill. And I think it was I think it's on on Billboard, too. But they're like the text was like, real food is supposed to mold or get rotten or something like that.
00;21;45;06 - 00;21;57;13
John Azoni
It was like, it's supposed to look this way if you're eating real food, you know, And yeah, and I thought that was kind of a bold move because it's like, why would you want to show a burger being all moldy and looking? It's absolute worse.
00;21;58;14 - 00;22;19;27
Jennifer Porter
You know, it's because you are eating good food like there is a good to that. And I think that that's what happened with the lacrosse. And honestly, I took that into my career in nonprofit with domestic violence. We had a survivor that unfortunately passed. So they had highlighted this survivor at a gala, a very fancy gala. She spoke the next year.
00;22;20;09 - 00;22;45;12
Jennifer Porter
She unfortunately was murdered due to domestic violence. But to tell that story of why it's so important for these services to exist, same thing, right? Like you don't do that lightly. And it's a humbling moment when you say, yes, this was not the outcome that we wanted or that anyone wanted, but it's a reality of the truth and that is why these services have to exist.
00;22;45;12 - 00;23;26;12
Jennifer Porter
That is why we have to continue in our mission. And here's how. Not only the why, but here's how you can engage, right? So you tell these stories. Sometimes they're not pretty. And I know the mood just here changed even with us, you know? That's all right. But also, it takes you on this journey with your donor, with your student, with your community partner, on whatever you are experiencing that is real and that makes you closer and it makes them want to engage further and they understand why it's so important and how then they can plug in.
00;23;26;20 - 00;23;47;09
Jennifer Porter
It's not always financial. It's like I said before, it could be through volunteer ism, it could be being an advocate, it could, you know, that looks different for every single person that you're going to encounter. But how do you get to those hard conversations or the conversations that are meaningful and impactful so that you can then make an ask?
00;23;47;17 - 00;24;08;05
Jennifer Porter
And that ask again is not financial. I had a mentor, two mentors when I first started this career because I never knew I was going to be in fundraising. They said Never leave without an ask, and it could be, Can I call you next week and just follow up on your kid's graduation, see how the grad party went, or can I send you some more information on this random thing that we chatted about?
00;24;08;13 - 00;24;22;21
Jennifer Porter
So I think when you're building those relationships and those connections, they have to be authentic or what's the point? That's my take on it. I'm like, What's the point on having these kind of fake relationships in life and in the work that we do in fundraising?
00;24;22;29 - 00;24;40;13
John Azoni
Yeah. And going back to what you said just about really painting the picture of the need, it's like, well, if everything's going great for you. Yeah. What do you need me for? You know, and everything's great and you're making such an impact and all this great stuff is going on and it's this glossy exterior. It's to a donor.
00;24;40;13 - 00;24;41;10
John Azoni
It's like, All right.
00;24;41;25 - 00;25;00;14
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, you've got it. You don't need any help from me in it. Are you actually going to use my money to continue your mission, or are you going to start something new? And there are donors that want to be absorbed, something new, right? Like, great, we're going to utilize that. But you're something new can also tie back to your mission and it should tie back to your mission.
00;25;00;20 - 00;25;10;17
Jennifer Porter
It should always be tying back to what is the thing you're trying to accomplish and what if this doesn't exist? How do we solve that issue? Yeah, whatever it might be.
00;25;10;22 - 00;25;33;19
John Azoni
Yeah. And as a donor myself, I mean, of whatever different charities and things like that, it reminds me of like, I don't know if Kiva is still around Kiva dot org. Do you remember that where you like? It's like micro-lending and you have these people overseas that are like maybe going to like a startup business or a farm or something like that, but they just needed this one need.
00;25;34;00 - 00;25;54;12
John Azoni
Yeah. And so they would shop this out to like donors, like just normal people who would give ten bucks or whatever. And and then eventually the money would get repaid as they made profit from the business. So but like you could sort of sort through like what types of needs or like how close they were to their goal or something like that.
00;25;54;12 - 00;26;11;29
John Azoni
And I always would find myself sorting to find like, what's going to put someone over the edge with my hundred bucks or whatever. Like you sort of like don't want to just give in to a black hole where you're like the donor in the middle of the process where you're you're bumping the number up. But it hasn't reached the goal yet.
00;26;11;29 - 00;26;35;25
John Azoni
I would always like to find what's going to like with this donation. They're going to get an email or a letter or whatever, and they're going to be super excited that they met their goal. Like, you've solved the problem, Like there's a specific problem. And I always think about that or like kind of how how we were a little bit bummed when we used to support this orphanage in Mozambique, Africa, and we sponsored one of the children there.
00;26;35;25 - 00;27;01;11
John Azoni
And, you know, it was communicated to us in a way that like your dollars are literally going toward feeding this specific child. And then as we dug a little further after we had been donating for a while, it became we found out that actually it's just going into the general fund and this child is just sort of like a shell for helping you try to feel connected to somebody.
00;27;01;20 - 00;27;03;13
John Azoni
And that was disappointing for us.
00;27;03;21 - 00;27;26;26
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I will say that's something that you have to be careful of when you are being very specific in your storytelling. If you are not communicating like because that's a lot of times what happens, John, honestly, is that you're going to tell this very specific story, but it might not be going to that lacrosse coach, right? Or like for that one is specifically it was going to go to this capital campaign.
00;27;27;05 - 00;27;53;22
Jennifer Porter
But you do have to be careful as a fundraiser when you're talking and thinking through specific storytelling, but also educating the donor on is it actually this one child or this one college student or this survivor or whatever it might be? Or is it to fund a greater mission of students like that or survivors like that or whatever it might be?
00;27;53;28 - 00;28;11;21
Jennifer Porter
So you do have to be communicating in a way that still is making that donor feel a part of the process, because I do think that's something that that could get you in a little bit of trouble, right? Like you guys didn't feel good after you were like, No, I'm not feeding this child. I'm feeding maybe like calories.
00;28;11;21 - 00;28;12;09
John Azoni
And things.
00;28;12;09 - 00;28;33;29
Jennifer Porter
That. Yeah. And so you have to be careful as a fundraiser, especially when you're using these specific campaigns, but also, you know, communicating that in a way that is still meaningful but not like, you know, like an abstract or bold text of this is general annual fun. You know, like you can still do that in a creative way.
00;28;34;14 - 00;28;57;09
Jennifer Porter
And I think, again, it comes back to that communication and that one on one was your donors, too. But it just depends on how you're using those stories. But that's something that when you said that was like, yeah, I mean, that could very easily happen when you're blanket storytelling. If it's not, you don't have specific funds set up, you know, there's not a restricted fund or there's not, you know, a designated fund for this specific problem.
00;28;57;19 - 00;28;57;28
Jennifer Porter
Yeah.
00;28;58;02 - 00;29;14;28
John Azoni
So have you seen any examples where like a donor really connected to a specific story and like really lit up or like, was this something really specific, like put a donor over the edge to to giving or partnering in some way?
00;29;15;16 - 00;29;56;08
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I think so. This is actually a corporate sponsor that I just had at my last nonprofit that they were looking for a nonprofit to support for the year, and they had had a couple of meetings. They'd done their research. They philanthropy was kind of a new thing for them. But we went in and I did my presentation and kind of talked about what we do in the services, but I brought up specific examples of the work and the people without using names, because sometimes you can tell a story, but you don't want to, you know, names have to be changed, faces have to be, faces have to be changed.
00;29;56;18 - 00;30;20;15
Jennifer Porter
There's a lot going into it. But once they heard this very specific survivor story they were in, there were a couple of them. There were two stories that I told them, one about a survivor that she is amazing. She's a nurse practitioner, she's an MP. So, you know, everybody thinks of domestic violence maybe as lower class or different races or but it happens to everyone.
00;30;20;15 - 00;30;41;08
Jennifer Porter
So I'm telling that story and I'm sharing that, You know, she was very close to being murdered, unfortunately, and she got out of that situation. The police were able to assist. She lives this big, beautiful life now, but she still has this in her life. And now she's becoming an advocate for the cause and she's okay with telling her story.
00;30;41;08 - 00;31;00;11
Jennifer Porter
And, you know, and I share that story only today because she was okay sharing that story. So that became very tangible to them. That happened in our backyard. That was part of why they wanted to do that. Another story I shared with them was we did a summer camp and there was a little boy at the beginning of the week that he did not want to be there.
00;31;00;14 - 00;31;19;10
Jennifer Porter
You know, he's gone through so much in his life and he would just was angry and he had a lot of behavioral issues. But by the end of the week, he didn't want to leave and he just was safe and at home. And a lot of people, you know, especially when you're working in trauma, a lot of people think it's so sad.
00;31;19;10 - 00;31;40;00
Jennifer Porter
How could you do that work? It's not sad. Like I would say it's not sad because you see the hope and you see the good that comes in that. And so those stories that were very specific that became more tangible to them just in a 30 minute conversation really changed them because I'm not sure we were going to be the charity of choice.
00;31;40;11 - 00;32;04;03
Jennifer Porter
I think it's like it was good, right? Like, but they had ten other great charities that they could have picked from and, you know, they were a male dominated business. And, you know, a lot of times, again, people associate female and kids with this kind of work and it happens to everybody. So, you know, it was kind of like, okay, we're here to tell these stories.
00;32;04;03 - 00;32;12;16
Jennifer Porter
And that changed that. And we had an amazing partnership with them. And they were really like dug in as some of the best corporate partners I've ever seen or had.
00;32;13;15 - 00;32;23;07
John Azoni
That's really awesome. Good for you. You know, getting specific with them, that reminds me of because I recently did a webinar and it was called Higher Ed Content Creation, but make it Not Suck.
00;32;23;17 - 00;32;23;24
Jennifer Porter
Yeah.
00;32;24;18 - 00;32;52;11
John Azoni
And we talk. And one of the slides was talking about the study that was done with Save the Children, and it was kind of exploring this theory of like the identifiable victim. And so I'm kind of sort of really broadly paraphrase, but, but basically they were like participants were some of them were giving like a statistical appeal. So there's like millions starving in Africa and then other people were given this very specific story of this girl named Rokia.
00;32;52;11 - 00;33;15;12
John Azoni
And like, you know, her struggles and things like that. And then they were asked to I think something like they were given like $5 or something like that and asked which version they would want to earn. Like, no, they were asked if they wanted to donate. I'm botching this, but bottom line is people that heard Rokia Story donated more than two times the amount that the people that got this statistical appeal.
00;33;15;12 - 00;33;39;28
John Azoni
And it just goes to show you, like when you get really specific and granular rather than just telling the story of the need, you know, you really establish a human connection. And one of the things that was interesting is that they found that there was a decrease in donations when people that heard Rokia Story heard a version of it that also included a statistical appeal like giving in context, like, here's our case story.
00;33;39;28 - 00;33;49;18
John Azoni
And also she's one of many that, you know, are experiencing this like a significant decrease. And I don't know, I don't know what to make of that. But it's just interesting that, like.
00;33;50;01 - 00;34;24;19
Jennifer Porter
My gut there is donors are smart, right? They know when you're making an ask. But if it becomes like there's this great story, however, look at these stats, too. That's very blatantly still an ask. You're not engaging in that like communication moment of hey, we're sharing a story and we are in this together. I think that that waters it down almost like that would be my thought of what happened is stats don't talk to you know they don't like everybody can share stats right So that one's off the market.
00;34;25;07 - 00;34;41;16
Jennifer Porter
But then you have this amazing story, but it's watered down them by the stats of I don't really care about the stats. I want to know what happened with Rokia. I want to know like that story and great, the stats exist, but what do those mean to me and how do I engage in a stat versus this person?
00;34;41;27 - 00;35;04;21
Jennifer Porter
And then it's very clearly that you're just using her story to get funds. That's my perception, as maybe that's my own donor profile. But I think as a fundraiser too, there is a balance at some point, right? If you're doing kind of an annual fund or an annual report, you have to share the stats. But that can also be you're telling a story.
00;35;04;21 - 00;35;23;24
Jennifer Porter
It doesn't just have to be the stats. However, if you're doing a mailer or you're doing a video campaign or whatever, why also include the stats when you hooked them and you have now you want to say, what do you do with that feeling? Not, Oh, here's some data because we're going to spreadsheet it out for, you know, who cares about that?
00;35;24;03 - 00;35;38;20
Jennifer Porter
Well, we want you to do something tangible with that feeling that you've just gotten from reading that story. That would be my thought. On why that one was significantly lower because it seems cheesy and it seems like a gotcha almost.
00;35;38;25 - 00;35;59;12
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah. So at your previous institution is do I like these partnership dinners and different events and stuff like that? What has been your criteria for picking stories to tell that you feel like your donors need to hear? Is it like impact focused? Is it like, Hey, we need to tell a story of this great thing that happened?
00;35;59;12 - 00;36;04;19
John Azoni
Or is it like the student that was struggling or what's your criteria?
00;36;04;19 - 00;36;28;07
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I think it depends on what's happening that year and what the goals are for the institution that year. Because again, you want to always be living into your mission as an institution. And hopefully that plan is not just your development plan, but it's a greater communication plan that you're kind of like moving into. So there have been years where we we've told the struggle story.
00;36;28;20 - 00;36;56;01
Jennifer Porter
There have been years that we've said, Hey, this is really great for us and this is the kind of student that that is here and this is where your dollars are going. When we were rebranding and name change, we went through a few name changes and so people didn't understand necessarily who we were anymore. And so we really wanted to showcase students and showcase that yes, we are still the institution that was created, you know, formed back in 1959.
00;36;56;01 - 00;37;19;04
Jennifer Porter
But we've updated with the Times and the student body is wide and diverse and we are still, though, at the core, educating these students and creating this. That's why this small community is so important. So I think it's what needs to be shared. I think we talked about this at coffee too. We did a video right before I left that institution of a student that I thought it was going to be a dud of a video.
00;37;19;11 - 00;37;37;01
Jennifer Porter
I thought it was going to be the worst video because that the student just wasn't like and I would say this to the student, too, like, he just wasn't very chatty, but he was a traditional student or in a traditional program, but a nontraditional student. And we were kind of showcasing that story that he got a standing ovation at our dinner.
00;37;37;01 - 00;38;00;16
Jennifer Porter
And it really resonated with people because of his life story. And so I think it's just picking out what is necessary in that time and place and being able to change what the message and the story is, especially in these large public settings of what does your donor need to hear, What's the feedback that you're getting? Is the feedback negative?
00;38;00;16 - 00;38;36;05
Jennifer Porter
Great. Let's talk about the negative. In some ways sometimes like is the feedback, you know, Hey, we've experienced this trauma together. We need to like maybe just be open with it. A lot of times we have the tendency, I think, sometimes to just show the shiny good, and that's not always what's needed, even at a fancy dinner. You know, we talked about the poop story and we've talked about death and we've but like, I think the stories to me, I've also had really good luck of like, they've just kind of come when they, me and you know, we find the story is we kind of go and but we plan and we used to not
00;38;36;05 - 00;38;49;24
Jennifer Porter
tell any stories. We used to have one like student speaker and they got up and they wrote a little speech and it was fine. And but you can't really get into your life story in 3 minutes, right? You're talking and you're nervous and you're.
00;38;49;24 - 00;38;52;09
John Azoni
Reading off a piece of paper and you.
00;38;52;16 - 00;39;10;14
Jennifer Porter
Your front 700 people like. So that's when we transition to using video as well as, you know, a student may get up and make some comments or, you know, in my last case, a survivor got up. We did kind of those day in the life videos, which I think was fantastic. So that's my new format. I might change it up.
00;39;10;14 - 00;39;29;13
Jennifer Porter
Who knows? We'll see when you're. But so far it's kind of worked for me of like really showcasing the questions that we want to ask. But having this underlying what problem are we solving and do you engage as a donor? But here's a real story that you're you're living into, and then here's a tangible person that's here on stage with us tonight.
00;39;29;13 - 00;39;33;27
Jennifer Porter
And you can get to know and talk to and learn more about them.
00;39;34;14 - 00;40;02;18
John Azoni
Yeah. One thing that has stood out to me kind of in the last year is like how powerful? Like an organic content strategy is on social media because you can really test what messages are resonating with your audience. And like, I have been surprised about, I've done a webinar on asking like better interview questions and I've done, you know, I talk on LinkedIn about this and I keep going back to it because people keep, you know, they message me and they're like, I shared that with my whole team.
00;40;02;18 - 00;40;20;21
John Azoni
Like, you're so right about the interview questions and like, you're asking better questions and stuff. That was never like if I had sat down in 2021 when I was like starting unveiled and been like, What's my content strategy going to look like? What are my content pillars? That would not have been one of them, But I was just like Kim family's just a random post that I did.
00;40;21;01 - 00;40;30;26
John Azoni
I made like a random carousel of like, Hey, here's one way to ask this question. Here's another way. Ask this question. And it went crazy for me. I don't know. Back then it was like crazy was like.
00;40;30;27 - 00;40;31;25
Jennifer Porter
March on.
00;40;32;03 - 00;40;55;17
John Azoni
Crazy was like 6000 impressions on LinkedIn for me at the time. So and I got a lot of feedback on it. And so I've just kept rolling with that. And then the other thing that I notice is like when I share an example from a like a really innovative example of a video from another school and like tagged the school and we kind of use it as like a case study post of like this is how you do content marketing differently.
00;40;55;29 - 00;41;15;24
John Azoni
Those pretty predictably have blown up like over 10,000 impressions types of things, and it creates such a great conversation. So for me as a business owner, I'm kind of like, okay, like what do I do with that? What does that say about what my audience is needing and what the gaps are in their learning or their pain points and what they want to learn from or whatever.
00;41;15;24 - 00;41;38;15
John Azoni
And I imagine, you know, that if, you know, development advancement were to collaborate strongly with the social media team, they would have some really good data on like what stories are resonating here. And but then it might be different because the donors might not be the ones following, you know, the social accounts. So it might just be like it might be apples to oranges.
00;41;38;15 - 00;41;45;22
John Azoni
But the thinking is, you know, you can use your organic strategy to not just be guessing about, you know, what stories are going to resonate.
00;41;46;05 - 00;42;10;05
Jennifer Porter
And I think it's different, different institutions, right? So you might have these great alumni groups, but what kind of content are you putting out there? Are you working with your social team? Are you working with your marketing team to do that, to create that organic content? But even I would say you look at a lot of institutions social and you just say, See, here's why it's great to come to campus, here's open house, here's this.
00;42;10;13 - 00;42;33;19
Jennifer Porter
But if you were really actually showcasing your professors and your students and showing like, Hey, I am Dr. So-and-so, and this is why I'm here at this institution, and here's what you're going to learn in my class. And I'm, you know, like more so telling the story of why they're there and why a student would want to engage and maybe take their class or freshman year or their senior year or whatever.
00;42;33;19 - 00;42;54;13
Jennifer Porter
I think that that could really change the trajectory of higher ed because it creates a relationship Then, even if you're not with those people. I know I have people and influencers that I follow that I'm like, Oh yeah, I feel like I know them. Like I'm going to go to chips and cheese with them. Like, but I think that that's one thing, especially with donors.
00;42;54;13 - 00;43;27;22
Jennifer Porter
They are looking at that. Donors are smart, they're looking at your social, they're engaging in some way. It might not just be, you know, like TAC, but it could be your Facebook for your older generations or your your traditionals or whatever it might be. They're still engaging in ways that are creative. So to continue that storytelling and always is important, even on your website, I think a lot of times it's the facts and figures on your website and you don't really you're not showcasing stories every opportunity you can to say why, and here is get to know somebody along the way.
00;43;28;03 - 00;43;28;25
Jennifer Porter
Why not do it?
00;43;29;08 - 00;43;45;09
John Azoni
Absolutely. So what would be your takeaways as we're wrapping up here on how higher ed institutions can do fundraising better? You know, what would be your main point or points for helping other development advancement? You know, folks get their donors to connect to the need?
00;43;45;26 - 00;44;14;14
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, I would say, you know, first and foremost, don't be afraid to tell a story. Don't be afraid to, you know, really showcase something. I think a lot of times we have the tendency to gloss over and just show the good, Don't be afraid to get messy. Don't be afraid to do that. And also collaboration, collaborate with those other teams across campus, even your different schools across campus to tell those stories so that you're not the only one.
00;44;14;26 - 00;44;36;18
Jennifer Porter
I think sometimes, you know, you have your people in your portfolio and you're not necessarily bringing in others with you. Bring a student with you, bring a professor with you, bring, you know, so that they can have that conversation and that you're still leading that and guiding that donor. But collaboration and don't be afraid to, you know, color outside the lines would be the day when.
00;44;36;24 - 00;44;39;02
John Azoni
You mean bring them with you to like a donor meeting or.
00;44;39;15 - 00;45;02;19
Jennifer Porter
To a donor meeting, bring them you know, bring that donor to campus. You know, have them sit in a class with with a professor or a student and, you know, bring them to that. They can really tangibly see what is going on. It's not just you relaying that information, but it is here's what's happening. Here's how you can engage in a real in a real way.
00;45;02;19 - 00;45;23;04
Jennifer Porter
And I you know, if a student shares something that might be like, oh, no, I didn't want that shared with a donor, that's okay. Right? Like, just be prepared to have the hard conversation because we're not trying to hide anything. Ultimately, a donor will give if they feel connected and if they're not the right fit, it's okay to let that donor go to.
00;45;23;04 - 00;45;42;04
Jennifer Porter
They might not be a good fit for your cause. You find one. If you find one that is a good fit, and then you can have those real, authentic conversations with them. So to wrap it up, I'd say color outside the lines a little bit when it comes to like your storytelling and then collaborate with others and what that what that storytelling could be, what it looks like.
00;45;42;08 - 00;46;05;04
Jennifer Porter
Get that donor, that tangible feeling of I'm really helping and this is who I'm helping. Even if it's for your annual fund, maybe you don't have a specific like I know new tech center that you're trying to raise funds for. But even with the annual fund, you can still make that tangible for a donor through storytelling. So those would be my kind of takeaways, like use your resources.
00;46;05;04 - 00;46;31;00
Jennifer Porter
If another department is already using a video or doing this, they have this comp plan, use it to just figure out ways to make it work for you. Right? Like you are going to give them all this B-roll, graduation, B-roll That is great for alumni relations. Telling a story that is like prime donor engagement right there. So why split the costs between departments, Use it and get your money's worth?
00;46;31;15 - 00;46;38;08
Jennifer Porter
That's what I would say. It's like, don't be afraid to reuse content in just different ways. So those are my three points, I think. Love it.
00;46;38;22 - 00;46;58;28
John Azoni
Cool. So it's been great having you. Yeah, Great to see you again. I know I saw you just a week or so ago in person, which is a rare meeting. I think the only other time it's so rare that I have like kind of work ish meetings with people. I think the only other time was the previous time that you and I met for Starbucks like two years ago.
00;46;59;17 - 00;47;06;12
Jennifer Porter
I make coffee tea with my john out of your like soundproof cell and come out.
00;47;06;12 - 00;47;10;28
John Azoni
Oh, I had to actually, like, get out of my pajamas and like, give my.
00;47;10;28 - 00;47;26;00
Jennifer Porter
Car dinner. Next time we're going to go have chips and cheese and, like, maybe a margarita and we'll record it. So, like, it's more like maybe I'll share chips and cheese and conversation with Jen now.
00;47;26;06 - 00;47;32;28
John Azoni
I love it. Yeah. Good. Well, where can people connect with the ad if they want to reach out to you?
00;47;32;28 - 00;47;43;11
Jennifer Porter
And I'd say the best way right now is LinkedIn, so you can check out my LinkedIn profile. I think it's Jennifer Porter on there. There's a big Hello banner. So come say hello and connect with me there.
00;47;44;18 - 00;47;48;24
John Azoni
All right. Sounds good. Super great. Cynthia, always a pleasure. Thanks for being here.
00;47;49;03 - 00;47;50;25
Jennifer Porter
Yeah, thanks, John. We'll talk soon.
